{Interview} Navigating Burnout, Entrepreneurship, Boundaries, & Single Life with Lindsay May

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Podcast Summary

It's rare that I do interviews! Ya'll know that - but as soon as I met Lindsay May, I was so glad to bring her on. Lindsay and I dive into all the things - from corporate life, to entrepreneurship, navigating boundaries with friends, single life, and more. She's a powerhouse with a beautiful energy and story and I'm so excited to share her insights with you all...

For show notes, head to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ coachellyn.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and, of course, follow me on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠OR check out my ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for more!

Resources

• Join the Burnout-Proof Business waitlist

Learn about Lindsay May…

Lindsay May is an award-winning, strategic marketing leader with 15 years of experience scaling businesses from startups to corporations. After leaving the 9-to-5 behind in January 2023, Lindsay launched her own SEO and website consultancy, The Happy Marketing Co., where she helps female founders grow through strategic website optimization and design.

Recently Lindsay launched The Happy LeadHer, a community and podcast for women in leadership roles who want to heal from burnout, find fulfillment, and celebrate bold action. Her mission is to help women feel less alone in business, whether they work in corporate, for a startup, or run their own business.

Follow Lindsay on Instagram. 

Links listed out

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelindsay.may

• The Happy Marketing Co.: https://www.thehappymarketing.co

• The Happy LeadHer (launch this week): https://www.thehappyleadher.com

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Drop a comment below…

Transcript

Ellyn Schinke (00:08):

Hey there, achiever, and welcome back to the Burnout Proof Podcast, where we're all about helping you build the mindsets, habits, and behaviors you need to burnout proof your life in business. My name is Ellen, and if you are a busy, overwhelmed Enneagram three achiever like I was, who is sick and tired of letting work run your life, you're in the right place here on burnout Proof. I'm committed to giving you simple no BS episodes that help you work less, live more, heal from your hustle, and take back your life from burnout. Let's do this.

Ellyn Schinke (00:38):

Hello my friend, and welcome back to another kickass new episode of the Burnout Proof Podcast, episode number 1 0 3 today, and you might have seen this as a little bit of a longer episode, I tend to really try to make these episodes short, sweet, to the point, give you something tactical, give you a mindset shift. But today's a little different because today we are gonna have our first interview of 2024. First interview, actually, since we've changed the podcast. And y'all know I don't do interviews a lot, but when I meet somebody that I feel like has a beautiful perspective, that needs to be shared or can then just offer a different take on their experiences and what helped them and what supported them, I wanna bring that person on. And today, that person is Lindsay May. Lindsay May and I met, we've kind of been, you know, circling each other, which makes us sound like sharks, but we've been in the same circles, and we finally connected.

Ellyn Schinke (01:29):

And I loved this conversation. It was so hard to name this episode because we talk about so many things. We talk about her former life as a marketing executive. We talk about her truly taking the leap and just diving into entrepreneurship. We talk about boundaries and setting boundaries with friends and clients. We talk about what it's like to build a business as somebody who is a single woman. We talk about all of the things. And I think it's really, really powerful to hear that perspective and to really dive into this because she is somebody who embodies the mentality of, I'm gonna become burnout proof, and I'm gonna do whatever I have to do to take my power back from feeling burned out. So, without any further ado, let's go ahead and let's get into this conversation today with Lindsay May. Hello, Lindsay, welcome to the Burnout Proof Podcast. You're my first interview since I've changed the name to the Burnout Proof Podcast. So welcome.

Lindsay May (02:23):

Woo. I'm so excited to be here. <laugh>. I'm honored. <laugh>.

Ellyn Schinke (02:27):

Yeah, we're, I'm so excited to get to know you today and hear a little about your story, because as you've dmd me very, very experienced with that former burnout life. So let's even just like start there. Tell me a little bit about you. Tell me a little bit about your, your burnout journey, if you will, and we'll see where things go today.

Lindsay May (02:45):

Yes. Oh my gosh, I was so excited. First of all, because I feel like burnout hasn't been talked about enough, and now that I'm learning more and more about it, you realize, okay, I was experiencing that back in the day. So I started out as a journalist like 14, 15 years ago, and I loved it. I was working 12 hours a day and going to events every single night. Like I was young, I was like 21. So I think that's kind of the phase of life where you get to do that and not be completely overwhelmed and tired. And then I took kind of a pivot into marketing. And as you know, I mean, the corporate world is so different than anything else that I've ever experienced, and that's the majority of where I spent my time. And so I started realizing, okay, this is a little bit different than like being a journalist and having a lot of flexibility, but I was still excited to climb the corporate ladder and have benefits and, you know, consistent income, all the things, little

Ellyn Schinke (03:42):

Bit more stability. Yeah.

Lindsay May (03:44):

Oh my gosh. So more stability, even though you kind of trade some things. But I was all about it and very committed. And I was in corporate for about 13, 14 years before I realized, okay, like I'm actually really burned out. And I think back then, which was only a few years ago, you know Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, when we started talking about burnout, I didn't realize what it was exactly. And you know, you hear experts say like, oh, it's, it's, you know, it's you. Like, it's your routine, it's your schedule, schedule, it's how you're managing things. But also, I was working 12 hour days as you know, in my thirties, and I was like, I am overwhelmed. I can't get done everything. Yeah. And so I loved it. Is that

Ellyn Schinke (04:29):

Mostly, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. Is that mostly how it showed up for you? Was that Yeah. You felt overwhelmed because like, you probably had a very similar experience to I how I did as how it sounds, and like, you didn't know it was burnout, but like what, what felt off in the capacity of that time of your life?

Lindsay May (04:45):

Yeah. And I think like once you get to know yourself, you realize like, this isn't normal. But I was really anxious too. Okay. And I've dealt with anxiety, like as a kid and stuff like that. But yeah, the anxiety, um, traveling a lot, like all of it just started building up. And so I was exhausted all the time. Yeah. But also, I just felt I couldn't show up and, you know, I had these c-suite roles where I was supposed to lead a team and lead a company, and I was like, I'm just, I don't feel like I'm capable of doing this because I'm working so much. I'm trying to manage my routine. And so, to answer your question, I feel like it was like a lot of things coming together, like <crosstalk>, where it was like, you're burned out. Like you can't do this. And so yeah. That's,

Ellyn Schinke (05:26):

You had a very similar burnout, like Yeah. The, the poo poo platter burnout is one of my clients called it. Um, yeah. Shout out to her. But no, it sounds like it was very similar to me. 'cause it was like emotional. Yeah. It was like a, I am so disconnected, I just can't get myself mentally to show up and be jazzed about this, even if I quote unquote should. But it was also the overwhelm of it. It was also the, the physical exhaustion of it. Like, it was, it was like everything all thrown into one.

Lindsay May (05:51):

Yeah. It really was. Gosh. Okay. And I loved my jobs. It was like I had the dream jobs, but I just couldn't commit to them fully because I felt like my health was taking a hit, my brain was taking a hit. So yeah, it was, it was literally everything at once. So definitely a poo platter, <laugh> <laugh>. Um, but yeah, it was, it was a lot. It was intense. So,

Ellyn Schinke (06:11):

Yeah. Okay. So then how did you, so how did you get out of it? Like, what was the, I actually am really curious to hear like, what was the transition like getting out of that, out of the corporate world? 'cause you have your own business now. Yes. What was, what was that like? Because I feel like we, a lot of people go into entrepreneurship thinking it's gonna fix a lot of the problems that they dealt with, especially related to burnout. But I mean, ask any entrepreneur and you trade a nine to five, or, um, maybe in your case it was like a nine to eight, but like, you trade that structure for basically a 24 7, right? Yeah.

Lindsay May (06:49):

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (06:50):

What was that then, like, and like, why did you make the pivot, but ultimately did it fix things?

Lindsay May (06:56):

Yeah. Well, it kind of came to a halt because I had a conversation with my boss at the time, and I was like, I'm experiencing extreme burnout. And she basically was like, well, how are you managing your time? And I was like, it's not just that. Like, I know there's a lot of, we can all do personally when we're experiencing it, but, you know, we had this moment where it was like, well, we're gonna ramp up. You're gonna travel more. So do you want that or do you want to leave? And I think she was surprised when I was like, I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna choose myself and I have no idea what I'm gonna do. And so that was exactly a year ago. And, you know, I thought I was gonna find another full-time job, but I couldn't really find another job that wasn't gonna put me in the same situation. Yeah. And so I just started contracting, and then naturally I built a business out of that, which is exactly a year. I launched that in February. And so, like you were saying, gosh,

Ellyn Schinke (07:50):

To me, it's exactly a year. Yes. Congratulations. That's exciting. Okay.

Lindsay May (07:53):

Thank you. I know it's weird. And we get to celebrate together now, <laugh>. Um, but I didn't really know that I wanted to, to like stop that from happening. Mm-Hmm. But it actually happened, and obviously there's like a lot there, but I had to learn, one of the biggest things is like, you still have to have a routine when you're an entrepreneur, maybe even more so, because I went from Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, having a boss, having a team, having people to talk to every day, to like, I'm doing everything by myself and I have no accountability. And so mm-Hmm. I did, started getting burned out again. I like took a few weeks off and then went back and then I was like, zero to a hundred real fast again. Yeah. And so I think it was like learning that, like yes, there were other factors that contributed to the burnout when I was in corporate. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But you can still get in that same situation if you're not, you know, you don't have this rhythm, you don't have a routine and you don't have accountability with yourself and on the outside too. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah, that was definitely like a shock factor when Yeah. It's not just corporate, but Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (08:53):

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I think that's, it's, and it's important to say because I, and whether even if somebody who's listening is corporate and going to another job, like that other job might not fix burnout because I mean it very well might, there, there are definitely situations with you maybe have a crappy boss or, you know, feel underappreciated or whatever it might be. But like, it is also about us. And what I don't, I don't like the mentality either way, that it's like, oh, it's this corporation's problem. They're the reason why I'm burned out. I don't like fully blaming them. But I also don't like what tends to be the corporate perspective of like, even when you were talking about your boss, your boss, well, what are, how are you spending your time? Yeah. Are you, how are you managing your, like, why is it on me? I know. I think it works both ways. I think it's both on the job and it's also on the person, because let's be honest, it's corporate America. It's really freaking slow to change. So we can say, oh no, you have to fix it so that I don't burn out, but that's probably not gonna help either. Right. And it's the same thing with entrepreneurship. Absolutely. So like, what's it been like finding that routine?

Lindsay May (09:59):

Yeah. It was really hard at first. Um, but then I, you know, I, I realized that like, I need to have a morning routine and an afternoon routine and an evening routine. And it's not just like this easy, you know Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> straight shot thing. And so I started with my morning routine, like, how do I wanna start my day? And Yeah. Started by meditating and stretching, having a breakfast, because before I didn't have time to make breakfast. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I was like, what do I really want in my new routine that I haven't had in corporate? And so I just made that commitment, I'm gonna start my day as I want to, but in a healthy way. I'm gonna go outside and get some sunlight. I'm gonna walk my dog so they're tired. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> so I can focus. So just realizing like all the things that I couldn't do in my last job that just made me unsuccessful. I was then gonna commit to them in this new role. And mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it becomes easier. I mean, it's really hard to start a new routine, especially when you're like an adult. You have a lot of history with things. Right. But yeah, you have to commit to yourself. And like, I even have a board where I check things off the list, like kind of like we did when we were kids, when we got stupid Yeah.

Lindsay May (11:07):

<laugh>. But like, whatever helps you, whatever helps put it into perspective and whatever helps you commit to it. I think that was the best thing that I could have done. So, yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (11:16):

No, I think that's, that's also like very good point. I, I, one thing I've been asking myself a lot, because I feel like my routines are taking, like they're, they're in a ma major reset mode. We'll just say that with my routines right now, major reset mode with my routines, because I realize that the routines that I had years ago, I don't need the same things.

Lindsay May (11:39):

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (11:40):

I don't even necessarily want the same things. Hmm. Like, I used to be such like a box checker when it came to my routines and I wasn't necessarily doing things because I wanted to do them. It was because, you know, some like fricking life coach guru on the internet told me I should do them, or like Tony Robbins said I should do them. Ramel Robbins said I should do them. Like, yeah. So I finally started asking myself the question, not necessarily of what do I want to do in the morning, I asked myself the question of how do I wanna feel in the morning? And even same with my evening routines. It's like, how do I wanna feel in the evening? I'll say, right now I suck at evening routines. My evening routines are constantly all over the place. It's like all I can do to just wa like not watch TV shows right.

Ellyn Schinke (12:20):

Up until the point I go to bed <laugh>. Um, but like, yeah, I think that's been a powerful question for me to learn as well, is it's not even just necessarily about what you wanna do, because I think that can so easily become like this laundry list of activities Yeah. That we force ourselves to do. At least for me, I'm very much, much like the more I'm doing, the better I'm doing. I'm very much that person. Yeah. But I think that was a, that was a powerful shift for you. Have you, have you noticed anything about your, your mindset

Lindsay May (12:47):

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (12:48):

Has shifted, especially your mindset around burnout and how much you're putting on your plate? Like what shifted in that regard from corporate to now?

Lindsay May (12:55):

A lot, because I think when, at least for me, when I was working in corporate, I think it was like just the weight of the world was on my shoulders. I think being in an executive role where you're, you do have a lot on your plate. You do have a team, you do have a whole company's future, like in your hands, basically, or that's what they tell us, right? So I think we're conditioned to think that we have to do everything all at once and we have to do it perfectly, and we have to just say yes to every single thing. And so for me, I started realizing like, I don't have any boundaries at all. And so becoming an entrepreneur, that was a huge thing of like, I don't have to do everything in one day. I don't have to say yes to everything that now my clients ask me of Right.

Lindsay May (13:37):

In each day. And so I think it's kind of just taking my power back is what the mindset was for me. And I did that through meditation and just like learning about myself in this new completely new journey, but without those boundaries and without feeling the power to say like, okay, no, I'm not gonna turn this back around and, you know, two hours for you because I have other clients. Yeah. Like now I get to set the rules for myself and Yeah. Now my clients understand too, if I just, you know, had stepped up before and just communicated, you know, things wouldn't go my way all the time. But now it's like just feeling empowered in who you are as an entrepreneur, I think it just changed everything for you. So yeah. That's a huge shift.

Ellyn Schinke (14:23):

Was there anything tangibly, like tactically you did to, to do that and to make that shift of stepping into my power? You mentioned meditation, but were there, there, like any, any things that you did specifically that really helped you step into that? Because I feel like you're, I mean, you're talking about boundaries and I feel like, especially for, I literally even wrote down like a content idea this morning because that's what I do when I'm out on walks. Like, um, things that I realized that I was doing, I feel like I'm good with boundaries. But I also feel like there's instances where we make excuses or we bend our boundaries, or we do things even like really, really subtle things that in all actuality are a boundary violation. Yeah. But we don't call ourselves on those things. So like, tell, tell me a little bit about how you, how you did tangibly step into your power, how you did get to the point where you realized, I don't have to say yes to this, right. Just 'cause this person's paying me.

Lindsay May (15:19):

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (15:19):

Like what were some of the things that you did there?

Lindsay May (15:22):

Yeah. I think gaining confidence as an entrepreneur too is really important because with that, like, just experience, right? Like being on calls with, um, potential clients even, and at first I would say yes to every single client who came my way and do things that I didn't wanna do. And Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I made these promises to myself. And like you were saying, you can kind of make excuses, but for me it was just practice. Like listening to myself as I was talking to clients and slowing down a little bit too. Mm-Hmm. Because when I get nervous, I tend to just talk really fast and be like, oh yeah, I can do that for you. And mm-Hmm, yes, I'll give you $500 off and whatever. Mm-Hmm. Like, we just try to fix it. Right? And so for me, like I had to physically slow down on calls and in meetings and Mm-hmm.

Lindsay May (16:08):

<affirmative> in my life too. Like you mentioned walks, I go for a walk and if I need to reply to an email that's like, you know, messing with me a little bit mm-Hmm. And I'm feeling like I don't know what to say or should I keep that boundary, I go for a walk first, or I just like meditate first because otherwise you're making these decisions in the moment that, you know, maybe you're not used to that yet. So it hasn't been, you know, it's not a muscle yet for you to say, actually this is how I do things, or this is what I charge, or whatever. So yeah, it's a combination, but overall it's like, it'll become easier once you, the

Ellyn Schinke (16:45):

More you do it

Lindsay May (16:46):

Time Yeah. And you get comfortable, like, okay, not everyone is gonna be like, screw you and not gonna wanna work with you. Yeah. They're actually proud of you. And they're like, okay, I love that she said that. I love that she says, you know, that she's like sticking up for herself or staying true to who she is. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, that just makes better fits with the right clients. Right. So

Ellyn Schinke (17:07):

Absolutely. It's reminding me of very recently, I mean like, I just had back to back weeks of speaking trips. Like I know, like my speaking prices are validated, I know people will pay them because I have people on my schedule who are paying those rates. And I, I remember recently I got massively lowballed by a client and it wasn't even the fact that they lowballed me, because if they lowballed me, I would've just kinda been like peace. No. Like we're, we're not aligned, but it was the, that they lowballed me and it was, they went about it very disrespectfully. Like some of the things that they said in the process of hearing my prices, which I also am just kind of like, my prices are on my website. Like, this should not be a shock to you <laugh>. Like, um, but like, it was the disrespect that came with it.

Ellyn Schinke (17:53):

And in the moment, I think you said earlier, fixer, I am totally a fixer. Yeah. And I'm totally like, I think I am, I used to say that I am a recovering people pleaser, and I think those tendencies are still there. Like, or I used to say I was recovered. I think I'm still recovering because I'm realizing even in this situation, I felt the, the impulse to fix, I felt the impulse to, I want them to like me, I want them to hire me. And so I said things in the moment and I agreed to it, even a date with them in the moment while they were figuring out their budget and if they could afford my rates, because I knew in the moment I was like, I'm not going as low as you want me to go. I might be able to go a little bit low if we do like a package. Yeah. But like, I am not willing to go anywhere near as low as you want me to go because you're basically asking for 50% off. And that's not okay with me. Like, but I, we kind of roughly decided on a date, and the more I thought of it, the date was actually supposed to be this Friday, and I would've done literally four straight weeks of trips.

Ellyn Schinke (18:50):

Wow. And I looked at that date and I was just like, I already am dreading this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I emailed him first thing the following Monday, and I was just like, look, I know we talked about the second. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (19:01):

I can't, like, I, I, I'm gonna have to say no to the second, and if that means we don't work, can't work together, so be it. But I can't do four straight trips in four straight weeks. Yeah. Like, I can't do that. Right. And it was really funny to hear, I think we hear that stuff like that. We hear people talk about stuff like that and think, oh, they're just, you know, this, they have no hesitation in doing that. And there's no concern That is because I can tell you right now in my head, I'm just like, I'm gonna lose this income. Like y'all, this is my first month being a full-time business owner. Like I was scared when I said that. Yeah. But I was really surprised to see that he actually came back and he was like, yep, no problem. Send me some dates that work.

Ellyn Schinke (19:44):

Um, we still haven't, I don't even know if we fully agreed on price yet, but he was so chill about the fact that I was just like, Nope, I can't do that. This is my boundary. I even have it in my email signature on my, if you email me right at bottom of my email signature says, um, it says, note, I do not check emails after 6:30 PM Pacific time, which is honestly still kind of late. I'm working on inching that up, but sometimes I have to check it after my day job's done for the day. Um, but like, I don't check emails past 6:30 PM and I don't check emails on weekends. And I literally put, because nobody likes a burned burnout coach, and couldn't we all use a little bit more disconnection in our lives? And you would be shocked how often that is a conversation starter Yeah. With effective clients.

Lindsay May (20:24):

Ooh. I mean, I do the same thing too, where it's like, maybe in the moment you're like, yeah, it's final figured out. And then you're like, wait, I slept on it and this does not feel right. And honestly Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I think that's amazing because you're still learning Yeah. What feels good and what doesn't. And you're like, yeah, okay. Now I know, like I use this as an example. And the client wasn't like, screw you and just like Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (20:46):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, it's, you gave a great example of something to do in real time of don't say yes immediately, go meditate, go on a walk. I've done that as well. But maybe even in instances where we make a mistake and we say yes to something that we shouldn't have said yes to. I think that's the beauty of being a small business owner and being an entrepreneur is you do have full control. I have said, and I, I'll continue to say it, and I don't mean any offense to any of my corporate people who are listening here, but I do think there is a little bit of a, I have to mentality in corporate, like I have to, I have to golden handcuffs, if you will. Like, and I literally, I work in the Seattle area, I know many friends who have worked or are working at Amazon, and that is literally a golden handcuffs culture.

Ellyn Schinke (21:33):

I feel like we pay you x amount of money every year, so we own your soul. That's like kind of how that operates there is. So there is a little bit of a, I have to, and maybe even I don't wanna be prickly toward anybody, maybe even a little bit of a victim mentality Yeah. In corporate. But I think the beauty of it is realizing that if, even if you're a corporate or a small business owner, you are a badass Yeah. At whatever you're doing. So feel, feel, you know, feel like you can say no, feel like you can put up a little bit of resistance when people are coming at you and telling you you have to. 'cause the fact of the matter is you don't. You're a human being and you can say no, and you can set your boundary.

Lindsay May (22:10):

Ooh, that is so good. And it's okay to stand up for yourself because mm-Hmm. <affirmative> everyone's going to, but no one is gonna stand up for you the way that you Exactly. Yourself. So you have to That's amazing.

Ellyn Schinke (22:20):

Exactly.

Lindsay May (22:21):

I love that so much. Yeah,

Ellyn Schinke (22:23):

Exactly. We gotta build the muscle because Ellen, a year ago, hell, Ellen, six months ago probably wouldn't have done that.

Lindsay May (22:29):

Same. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (22:30):

But there's been a lot of muscle building when it comes to building my boundaries and I Sounds like the same for you. Yeah, absolutely. Put it in your contracts too. If you're a small business owner, like you don't want people contacting you on Saturday and Sunday, put it in your contracts when your business hours are. I had a fricking ex-boyfriend who was a marketer, <laugh>. I had an ex-boyfriend who was a workaholic and a marketer, and he'd be like, well, I have to respond on Saturday afternoon while him and I are like on a date. And I'm like, no, you don't. I was like, do you have it in your contracts? He's like, what do you mean <laugh>? Like, this guy had like 30 K retainers. Like he was exceptionally successful and Yeah. What do you mean put it in your contracts? And I'm like, put it in the contract when they're allowed to contact you,

Lindsay May (23:14):

They're still gonna sign it. And I do that too, and I put it in my onboarding as well. And when I get a text and some of my clients are now friends, which I feel like that happens a lot when you're entrepreneurs. Yes, me

Ellyn Schinke (23:25):

Too. Me too.

Lindsay May (23:26):

You know, cross that line a little bit. They'll text you and then they're like, Hey, I didn't hear from you. And it's like, I don't talk about work over the weekend and you know that, and we, you know my story and you know, I totally get that. You forget things like that. But I'm gonna continue to uphold my boundaries because Yeah. You don't wanna be Lindsay from a year ago or two years ago. Yeah. Like I, I've come a long way. You've come a long way and I'm so proud of us. Yeah. We did

Ellyn Schinke (23:52):

It. I'm so proud of us too. Do you give out, this is a, I've never thought I'd have this conversation with somebody on a podcast. Do you give out your personal number to clients?

Lindsay May (24:01):

You know, when they start as friends and then become clients? I don't really have a choice, but only on like certain contracts where it's like if there's an emergency with ads or something like that, which I don't do ads anymore. So now I don't really give it out. And there's really no case for an emergency, you know, for my current clients. So, yeah. Oh, you know, I think it's, it's a rule that I have that I just really don't.

Ellyn Schinke (24:26):

Yeah. I'm very similar. The only time people get my phone number is same if it is a friend who's become a client or if I have a speaking engagement and we're on the ground and I'm, I'm landing and they, they need to get in touch with me while I'm at the event. They, I will only still give them my personal number a couple days leading up to it. And here's actually a pro tip for anybody who does have the friends, our clients thing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, my friend and I navigated this very, very well. She was one of my very first clients back in the day when I was first getting started. And I, she was, I was her client as well. We did, like, we did work for each other. And what we've got down now is we will literally say to each other when we somebody reaches out and asks for something, I'll literally ask her, do you need Coach Ellen right now? Or do you just need me to, to be your friend? That's

Lindsay May (25:15):

Good. Do you need, do

Ellyn Schinke (25:16):

You, and even simultaneously, do you need me to, do you need advice? Do you need somebody to help you fix the situation? Or do you just need me to listen? Which is honestly like business owner or not. That's just like a good question I feel like to ask when people are coming to us venting because I mean, how often do we go to our friends and we don't want help. We don't want anybody to come in and fix, we just wanna talk. We just wanna vent and get it out of our system. And then they swoop in and start fixing and then we get all frustrated because that's not what we wanted. Like I'll literally say like, Hey, I just wanna vent. I don't need to fix anything right now. And I'll ask her and she'll ask me, what do you need from me right now? Do you need me as a coach or do you need to be as a friend?

Lindsay May (25:56):

Ooh, that's really good. Because Yeah, I feel like those lines definitely get blurred when you're in entrepreneurship. Yeah. And not only are you setting boundaries for yourself, but the people that you love, your friends, you're like, Hey, like are we going into happy hour to talk about work stuff? Or are we like going to celebrate work stuff that we've done, but like not talk about it, you know? Yep. And I think having those open conversations are so that's so important because otherwise we're kind of going back on, you know, what we have built so far with our other, and then everything is just gonna kind of get blurred. So that is, so I'm gonna use that. And

Ellyn Schinke (26:30):

I feel like we don't want our, we don't want our friendships to become just about business. Like, I'm thinking of one of my very good friends right now, shout out to you Michelle, um, who I love dearly. We end up going into business conversations and now I'm kind of thinking about it. I almost think we shouldn't go into business conversations as much as we do. Like inevitably when we hang out, like I met her through a, um, like a women in business network. Yeah. Um, we were both in the same area. We realized we both hike, so we started hiking together and we, she's still one of my best friends. I absolutely love her. She's awesome. But we'll go on hikes and we end up talking business <laugh>, like that's meant to be like our recharge, disconnect, time <laugh>. But like, she's one of the, like up until this year, she's one of the only like really close friends I have. Yeah. Who's also has a business. And it, there's something about the, I think that's a boundary that is a tricky one to navigate is there's something about knowing, like having a friend that gets it. Mm-Hmm. A friend that you can actually talk to about this stuff.

Lindsay May (27:34):

Yeah. But

Ellyn Schinke (27:34):

Also not blurring the lines between like, she's my friend and not just like a business person in my life. I

Lindsay May (27:41):

Wish for that. So this is what I do with my friends when we go out to happy hour or we go on a trip or whatever, I'm like, let's spend the first 30 minutes just getting out what we need to get out about work. <laugh>, whether we had a day or a great day, or we have a new client, like, let's celebrate or lean on each other for these 30 minutes. Yeah. And then we're gonna talk about our personal lives. And sometimes we're like, wait, but I do wanna say something else about business. And it's like, understandable. Right? Mm-Hmm. We're humans. Mm-Hmm. And we're in each other's lives for reason, but at least we're like, now let's just like breathe and like let it out. Mm-Hmm. And just hang out as humans, as women together. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so that's kind of what we do. And it's not like super

Ellyn Schinke (28:18):

I love that,

Lindsay May (28:19):

But like, it seems to work because we both acknowledge we don't wanna talk about work the whole time. Right. Yeah. That's fun.

Ellyn Schinke (28:26):

Yeah. Well, and I think it's, it's those social supports in in business are so necessary. Those social supports when it comes to burnout are so necessary. It's why like having good relationships at work, having good, like I actually think that's something that I didn't realize how much I needed until Michelle and I became friends, was realizing that like I had social support when I was, you know, back when I was in my, my pre-business days. I had that social support. And then it's like the deeper you get into business, you start to realize that maybe that's not there es especially if you're a solopreneur and you're like a literal one woman show in your business. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That was something I realized how much I missed and how much I needed. Yeah.

Lindsay May (29:08):

Just

Ellyn Schinke (29:08):

To, you know, just to kind of get through the, the day-to-day difficulties of entrepreneurship. 'cause entrepreneurship is batshit crazy. And sometimes I wonder why we all do it to ourselves, but we know why we do it because it's impactful and it's fun and it's free and all of that. But like, that is something I've realized in the last couple years because I still have a day job. I'm still working my way to being, you know, having that business that is, you know, it is definitely on the up and up. We've got some good momentum right now, but I want, I'm still getting to that place where I feel confident and comfortable enough to just be focusing on my business. Yeah. And because I had all of this stuff on my plate, I felt like I was missing the social support from business owners that got it.

Ellyn Schinke (29:49):

So like, this is like my year of networking. I joined like three local networking groups is why I went to the women's conference on Saturday, even though I was real tired at the end of last week. Like, it's why I did it. 'cause those, those relationships, those people that get it, those people that you can lean on are absolutely invaluable. Do we have to have boundaries with them when they're like our friends as well? Abso freaking lly. But like having those social relationships and that social support in entrepreneurship and being a small business owner cannot be like, we cannot undervalue that. Did you find that, I you, you've said you've been in business for like a year as well, but how, how have you built those relationships?

Lindsay May (30:26):

Oof. Well, first of all, it's so lonely when you make that switch. A lot of my friends historically have been people that I've worked with. So I totally agree with that. I did it a few ways. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I had friends who, you know, are business owners and who had been through things. And so I like reached out to them and I was like, can you just like, gimme some tips? Like, can you just let me know? Like, does it get easier? Or like, what, what did you do in this situation? So I joined a community because also like I wanted to be around women who were doing the same thing as me because not only does that give you support, but you can also look up to women who are doing what you wanna do. Right. So I had to find people like me and I knew they were out there, but I never joined something like that before becoming an entrepreneur.

Lindsay May (31:14):

And then I realized, wow, like these people are gonna be my best friends. And so, you know, I definitely think that when you start a business, it can definitely feel like you're in a silo where you're like, I am doing this all by myself now, but when you join groups, I love that you join groups near you. I'm doing the same thing this year. It just gives you this sense of like, I'm not alone, but also I have a lot to learn and I have a lot to look forward to. And it keeps you on the path of like really why you're leaving everything else behind. And I love that you are making the transition. Like you're still working, you're still doing all the things. So you're kind of like building up toward that. That's so smart. Yeah. I didn't do that. I wish I had, but out

Ellyn Schinke (31:54):

Of curiosity, are you in a relationship?

Lindsay May (31:57):

I'm not. I'm single.

Ellyn Schinke (31:58):

Okay. Okay. Dude, you have balls that I do not have because I would not have been able I to do that. Okay. I

Lindsay May (32:05):

Actually, and I got a house. Yeah. No. It was like a literally the worst timing I had, I had to make it work. So sometimes that happens. But o yeah, it was tough.

Ellyn Schinke (32:13):

How the, okay, I'm so glad I asked you this question because this is something that I feel like, and I, I will just, apparently I'm gonna be like a little bit of like potential for people off today. But I do, I feel like people underestimate how difficult it is Yeah. To start a business when you're single.

Lindsay May (32:31):

Oh yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (32:32):

Like that to me and my, and part of the reason I've been so slow in transitioning outta my day job is because the idea of not having that safety net underneath me anymore freak and terrifies me. Oh. Oh yeah. How, how did you handle that? The, the emotional aspects of it? The, the financial aspects of it? How did you handle making that transition as somebody who is single? Yeah.

Lindsay May (32:53):

Well first of all, I don't recommend it unless you have to <laugh>. Um, 'cause it is terrifying and it is hard to make it work. And I love that we're having this conversation, but like, when I first quit, I started doing contract work. So I work in marketing and it was easy to get like those few, like, you know, not very many hour jobs off of, um, Upwork and stuff like that pretty quickly. But obviously like that wasn't gonna pay all my bills and my mortgage Yeah. Pay for healthcare and all these things that I was like, oh, now I need all of this. Right. And so, I mean, for me, I just set a goal. Like if I don't replace my income in a few months, then I have to get another full-time job. And honestly, I was just like, you, like I was definitely scared.

Lindsay May (33:39):

So I kept applying for full-time jobs, but I started realizing like I could make it work and I got retainer clients. And so I started with services that I really didn't wanna do forever, but that I had to do right now. And sometimes you have to do that, right? Mm-Hmm. Like sometimes you have to get a full-time job for right now, even if it's your not your dream job. So I did it like that in entrepreneurship where I was like, yeah, I'm gonna manage social media and even <inaudible>, even though I don't wanna do that in the future, but you figure it out. And I'm not saying that everyone should do that because it's really stressful and Yeah. A lot that you don't think of when you don't have that consistent paycheck. But I will say that for me, I didn't really have a choice.

Lindsay May (34:22):

Yeah. I had to go, had to go all in. And when you're like that, you make it work and you figure it out, yeah. There's a lot of things that you can do. Um, but I'm very grateful that I did, you know, figure it out. And I have replaced my full ki my full-time salary and you know, it's taken a while, but like knowing that it's possible is so encouraging to me to be like, I can keep this and I can keep growing. And I think that's what you have to remember is like, why did I wanna do this? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like why did I wanna make this shift and what are the, the steps that I need to take to actually make it work? And to mm-Hmm. <affirmative> make more than I was making in corporate. So

Ellyn Schinke (35:01):

Yeah. I love how you said that a second ago though, because I mean, I'm in the process of creating what I want to eventually become a course, but it's probably gonna start out as some sort of like mini mind or mastermind and I wanna call it burnout proof business because I feel like, yeah. I feel like that is what so many people I think do wrong when they start off is they start off offering all of the stuff that they feel like they should offer that they know is making them money, but they don't actually wanna do. I actually love how you did it though, because I think the way you did it is smart. I know you said, I know this is gonna make money, but I also know I don't wanna do it forever. And I think having that awareness of realizing even if this is a money maker, it doesn't have to be a forever thing in your business because I think that's where a lot of entrepreneurs get trapped, especially when they feel that financial pressure of what's gonna make me money now is they get trapped in these offers that they never actually wanted to be a part of their business.

Ellyn Schinke (35:55):

Yeah. So I love the mentality you went into it with, you know, that this is gonna be a temporary thing to get you where you wanna be to that point of sustainability where you can actually start to build the business you want. Yeah. I definitely feel like I don't wanna do nearly as much speaking as I do. I am, like we talked about homebody mug, I am a homebody <laugh>. Like if I can be home always, I am happy with that. It does very, very little for my dating life to be home always. Right. But you know, like I don't mind it, I don't mind just being snug as a bug in a rug in my apartment and I don't wanna be at the airport every single week. Right. So that is, it's kind of a means to an end, but I think having the awareness of that is so important. Yeah. When you are building your business, because otherwise your business can start to burn you out, even just from that mental emotional perspective of doing things that you don't want to do.

Lindsay May (36:45):

Yeah, for sure. I'm so excited for you. I mean, I've been there too where I was like, I'm gonna start like, you know, putting my feelers out there, but you're already doing it. I mean, you're speaking and you are getting your name out there so that you get these clients in the door and you get all of that and that's an amazing way to do it too. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I think, you know, for everyone listening, you'll figure it out how you wanna do it. If you have this dream, if you have it inside of you to like start your business, start small or go all in. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you'll figure it out and you know, yeah. It's hard. But so is working at a job that you hate or a job that is burning you out every day,

Ellyn Schinke (37:20):

Sucking the life out of you? Yes. Yeah. Yes. <laugh>, go for it.

Ellyn Schinke (37:25):

I feel like that's such a nice, like kind of wrap up to the end of this. Yeah. And all I'll say to that is just like you said at the beginning, tie this up with a nice little bow that the confidence is built over time in the same ways that you build the confidence to set boundaries. The confidence in yourself is built over time. Last week for me, that conference I got back from last week was a pinch me moment. It was a, holy, I'm doing this moment, holy, this is happening moment. And it took me a lot of years that of my, my business turned five in January. Like, it took me a lot of years to get to the point where I had that confidence in myself. And I think that's another thing to realize is you're not gonna be confident in your, in your, your abilities perhaps overnight. Unless you're like one of those unicorn people and they are out there, you're probably not gonna be confident in your abilities and in your ability to do this entrepreneurship thing overnight, it's gonna take those deposits over time. Yeah. And those, those reps over time, that building that muscle that then you start to feel confident. Yeah,

Lindsay May (38:26):

Absolutely. You're never gonna build that confidence unless you take one step every single day. Like, and then it'll build up for you and then you'll be like, okay, I'm ready. Let's go do it. It is, it's never gonna be easy for you, but nothing ever is. Right. Yeah. That's worth going after, so.

Ellyn Schinke (38:43):

Well, yeah. Okay. I feel like I could keep going with you and ask, like, I'm always curious about like, like stuff that's like, uh, marketing that doesn't, you know, require all of you 24 7, like how to do social media in a way that doesn't like absolutely kill you. SEO is my favorite thing ever. Shout out to ex-boyfriend who got my SEO nice on my website. Um, <laugh>, I feel like we keep going, but let's maybe just tie this up. Where can people find you if they need your, your marketing skills, if they just want to have, have a fellow human that appreciates building businesses without and just lives without burnout and has been there and done that, where can people find you?

Lindsay May (39:24):

Yeah, so I do have two Instagrams because I'm like that. So I have that <laugh>, it's at the Happy Marketing Co and that's where I do a lot with websites and SEO and marketing in general. And then the Lindsay Dot May is my personal brand where you can find me and we could just talk, we could talk in the dms or you know, just inspire each other. But I love to hang out there too. Um, but yeah, that's where you can find me and, and I'd love to meet you and talk to you. So yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (39:53):

Hell yeah. That's where we found each other, so definitely. That's good. Definitely check her out on Instagram. Thank you so much for, for sharing your, your journey, your experience. I feel like we got both the corporate side and the business side and who knows, maybe I'll have you back on here and we'll talk burnout proof marketing for all of the small business owners out. Ooh,

Lindsay May (40:11):

I love it. I'm so down. Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun. And I feel like we need like a single girls weekend where we just like, dude

Ellyn Schinke (40:19):

Yes. Go out. Yes. Especially can we like, I'm gonna be super biased like single girl business owners.

Lindsay May (40:26):

Yeah, let's do that.

Ellyn Schinke (40:28):

<laugh>. I love it. I love it.

Ellyn Schinke (40:33):

Before you go, I just wanted to thank you so much for spending some time with me today. My goal and the whole reason I started this podcast is to put the things I'm learning and the ahas I'm having in the hands of the Enneagram three achievers like me who really need them because I know I'm not the only one who is sick of the cookie cutter bs of sleep more and quit your job. Right. That's why I would love to hear what you took from today's episode. So go ahead and head over to Instagram, shoot me a dm, take a screenshot of the episode and tag me at Coach Ellen. Again, that's E-L-L-Y-N. And if you haven't already, I would really appreciate if you would take a moment to subscribe to this podcast and leave us a rating and review. Last, but definitely not least, I know that we all know someone who is struggling with chronic stress and burnout. And if this podcast is helping you, it very well might help them too. So if you've got a friend or a loved one in mind, I, and I'm sure they would appreciate you sharing this podcast with them. Again, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you so much my friend, and I'm so grateful you're part of the burnout proof community. Until next time, my friend, bye.

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