Career Transitions, Side Businesses, & Sustainable Marketing with Podcasting ft. Rosemarie Callender
Listen on Apple Podcasts / Listen on Spotify
Summary
Every person who has experienced burnout knows how dramatically it can impact your life. But, what about if you're navigating a lost job? A massive career transition? A new business? That was Rosemarie Callender's experience.
In today's episode, Rosemarie shares her journey from executive assistant to starting her own business as a virtual assistant and later pivoting to podcast strategy. We'll dive into her experience with burnout and changing businesses, the impact of podcasting on marketing and sales, and more!
For full show notes, head to coachellyn.com/podcast, and, of course, follow me on Instagram OR check out my YouTube Channel for more!
Keywords
podcasting, virtual assistant, burnout, marketing, sales, streamlining, repurposing, content creation, SEO, podcasting, SEO, marketing, business strategies, podcast production, social media, podcast growth, podcast SEO, streamlining processes, marketing strategies
Some Takeaways
Rosemarie's accidental journey from executive assistant to virtual assistant and later to podcast strategy.
The impact of burnout on Rosemarie's career and the importance of ruthless self-awareness in making career decisions.
The role of podcasting in streamlining marketing and sales, and the repurposing of podcast content for various platforms. Podcasting can be optimized for SEO to reach a wider audience.
Marketing strategies for podcasts should be tailored to the preferences of the target audience.
Streamlining podcast processes can lead to more efficient production and marketing.
Social media platforms play a significant role in podcast growth and audience engagement.
Sound Bites
"A podcast can really streamline your marketing."
"I've always heard that posting the transcript was bad for your SEO. So now I'm confused."
"I'm gonna pop the transcript down below and that's gonna be better for my SEO than not doing anything."
"Marketing is definitely something we all can do better at."
Chapters
00:00 The Accidental Journey: From Executive Assistant to Podcast Strategy
03:02 Navigating Burnout and Career Transitions
05:58 The Power of Podcasting: Streamlining Marketing and Sales
25:29 Understanding Podcast SEO and Marketing Strategies
32:24 Streamlining Podcast Processes for Efficiency and Effectiveness
35:41 Marketing Strategies for Podcast Growth and Audience Engagement
About Rosemarie Callender
Rosemarie Callender is a former executive assistant turned entrepreneur. After losing her job and going through her own experiences with burnout, she started her first business as a VA. But, she realized that that wasn’t working out for her either, so she pivoted again. In the process, she became an incredible podcast strategist. Now, her mission is to empower YOU to build a sustainable and profitable business through strategic podcasting.
Website | toobusytopodcast.co.uk IG | @toobusytopodcast Threads | @toobusytopodcast
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TRANSCRIPT:
Ellyn Schinke (00:01.037)
Hey, Jacqueline, welcome to the Burnout Proof Podcast. How are you?
Jaclyn (00:03.15)
Hello? I'm so well, thank you so much for having me. I am ecstatic to be here and do this.
Ellyn Schinke (00:08.877)
And honestly, everybody prepare yourselves because if our little intro conversation is any indication, we're going to laugh a lot today. This is going to be a ball. I'm very, very excited. Okay. So tell me, when you sent me kind of the what you wanted to talk about, I can see already with you that we could potentially go in so many different directions with what we're going to talk about today. Rest, self -acceptance, boundaries. I'm really interested in what you said about reframing perspectives on success. But before we get into any of that,
Jaclyn (00:15.982)
Yes. Yes.
Ellyn Schinke (00:38.893)
Tell us all a little bit about you, who you are, and how you got to where you are now in your life, and kind of some of the things you experienced.
Jaclyn (00:47.246)
Okay, okay, I'm gonna try to keep it short and sweet. I, thank you, there's editing, right? Okay. So I was born in the Midwest of the US and I grew up in a very traditional family. And in 2007, I was thrown from the back of a motorcycle and run over by a truck and died officially a couple of times and whatever, had the whole thing. But the process of healing that, that,
Ellyn Schinke (00:50.733)
It's okay if it's not.
Jaclyn (01:17.006)
came from that inspired my first book. And that was such an introspective process for me to really, the whole idea of self -acceptance and what success means to me and what a good life meant to me and what I wanted to do with my life and all of these things, you know, sort of evolved from that, you know, very brutal kind of awakening experience. So I started writing books because that's what I thought I wanted to do. I was so sure I was going to be a writer, you know.
Ellyn Schinke (01:37.837)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (01:44.878)
And I had some success with that for sure. I'm glad that I did. But through that process, I realized that the thing that I really wanted was to dive into the self love, the spiritual side of things, the connection to, I'm going to say God force energy because I don't want to put a label on it. There's no religious dogma or anything that goes along with my particular belief system or what I talk about. But just this idea that,
Ellyn Schinke (01:48.237)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (02:02.157)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (02:06.093)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (02:10.766)
We have so much more power in our lives than we allow ourselves to seize, I think. We accept and evolve and adjust ourselves based on the things that are happening in our lives at any given point, based on things we're trying to manifest, whatever. And I think we get lost in that process a little bit sometimes. And so my version of sort of refinding myself inspired me to want to be able to share that as much as possible.
Ellyn Schinke (02:38.701)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (02:39.502)
and empower us to take back that I am the boss of my life. I can make changes, I can do things differently. And that's where I evolved into doing the podcasting and the coaching and things like that.
Ellyn Schinke (02:45.453)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (02:53.389)
man, I mean, you guys, I wish I could, you could see my face because she's like, I was thrown off back motorcycle and almost died. I was just like, whoa, we, I didn't know we were going there this morning. But it's, it's amazing to me though, because you know, even though I've, I've never had like a like near death experience or anything like that, but I do think it's amazing how I feel like everybody's journey, at least that I've been talking to recently who's in kind of this space. There was some like epic low point.
Jaclyn (02:59.094)
You
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (03:22.029)
that they experience and that epic low point as much as I don't want my clients ever to wait until they get to the low point, but that low point can be so incredibly transformational. Like even for me, I always say like burnout's the best thing that ever happened to me. Burning out in graduate school, I would not be where I am now if that didn't happen. I probably would be unhappy in science if I didn't burn out when I did.
Jaclyn (03:22.126)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (03:28.846)
Right.
Jaclyn (03:32.494)
Yes.
Wow.
Jaclyn (03:40.526)
Wow, I love -
Wow.
Ellyn Schinke (03:47.405)
So like that's powerful. Was there, and I feel like this is a really important question to ask with what we're talking about. Were there points where you felt defeated in bouncing back? Yeah.
Jaclyn (03:47.566)
depth.
Jaclyn (03:53.678)
Sure.
Jaclyn (03:57.678)
for sure. Well, initially the prognosis was that I had a 50 % chance of survival if they amputated both my legs. I had broken every bone on the left side of my body, damaged all of my major organs. They had put me in an induced coma because they were fairly sure I wasn't going to survive at all. And so when I came out of that, when I came out of the coma days later and started to kind of have a very
Peripheral understanding that you know serious damage had been done. I had this whole like Realization that the life that I thought I might live that I hadn't even dared to dream about because I didn't know what I wanted to do yet at that point Was gone. I was 26. I just turned 27. I'm sorry. I was like two days
Ellyn Schinke (04:38.741)
How old were you? gosh. Yeah, no, that's, that's good.
Okay, you know what's actually crazy? That's when I dropped out of grad school. I was 27. But like to throw like a serious injury on top of all of the mental and emotional things I was going through. my God, like, yeah, keep going. What was that like?
Jaclyn (04:51.886)
Yes! I feel like that's an epic shift point for a lot of people.
Jaclyn (05:03.086)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (05:06.798)
Well, it was, I mean, it was really hard, honestly, obviously, because there was just a lot of like, nobody told me, thank God, that they didn't think I would ever walk again, even though they had successfully saved my legs. So, but I did have this very like, my legs are just, they're not pretty, not at all. And I had, you know, there was that layer of awareness that comes from those kinds of experiences where I realized,
Ellyn Schinke (05:18.861)
That's good.
Ellyn Schinke (05:26.701)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (05:35.118)
I had put a lot of value on my ability to walk and looking a certain way. And I didn't look that way. I was very insecure, but I hadn't even been grateful for the fact that I had legs or could walk. And so there was that emotional challenge of believing that I could be a happy person in a wheelchair or that I could be a happy person with a horribly mangled bottom half of my body.
Ellyn Schinke (05:38.861)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (05:48.109)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (05:56.397)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (06:03.245)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (06:04.206)
And I think that was definitely one of those low points where it was just, there was a lot of time. In fact, in the book I write about the first time they took me outside. So I'd been in the hospital for, I don't know, four or five weeks at that point. And when they moved me from my bed to a wheelchair, it was the first time that I had been anything less than horizontal or anything more than horizontal in almost a month. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (06:14.509)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (06:26.381)
I like that little subtle reframe right there.
Jaclyn (06:32.206)
And that hospital room had become my entire world. And so anything outside of that was just horrifyingly scary. They got me in the wheelchair. They pushed me outside. I had all of these hangers, things for my tubes and all the stuff that was attached to me. I had these little machines that were sucking all the crap out of my wounds, whatever. And as I got outside, I realized, or as they pushed me through the doors, I realized I hadn't wanted to live. I had not wanted to survive that accident.
Ellyn Schinke (07:00.813)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (07:01.294)
I was just exhausted by life, you know? It wasn't, I wouldn't even say it was like depression. I wasn't feeling suicidal. It was just this like epic level weight, emotional weight of having to define myself and find a career that I wanted and could be a part of and could be, you know, fulfilled by. And yeah, well, and even up to the accident, you know, there hadn't, I hadn't had a joy.
Ellyn Schinke (07:04.557)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (07:17.965)
You're starting over, right? Like...
Jaclyn (07:29.39)
just in being alive. There had been no joy in just living. And so I realized that I was disappointed that I had survived. And that was a real harsh like, all right, well, yeah, I'm here, you know, I better figure out a way to make this not a miserable experience for however many more years I'm gonna live, you know? First.
Ellyn Schinke (07:34.413)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (07:41.357)
Got check, yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (07:48.845)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Yeah. I really keep thinking about what you said about nobody told you that you would never walk again. And I was thinking about that as you were telling the story of what kind of people that you had around you. Because I know for me and what I was experiencing, which was very much just mental and emotional, there was no physical damage done to me in my experience. Very, very different. But I know how much...
I appreciated the support that was there and how quickly I had to either shut down or separate from myself the non -supportive people that were there. And I can see how, like for me, it was super, super important to get like the naysayers and the people who were judging my decision to leave grad school out of my life.
Jaclyn (08:46.382)
Yes!
Ellyn Schinke (08:46.989)
Did you have any of that where you did have people who were kind of negative in the process or were a lot of people in your life positive for you?
Jaclyn (08:55.854)
I don't think, I think that it was dramatic enough that there wasn't a lot of like the issue of having legs or being able to walk was almost a non -issue. It was more about just like, how will she survive? Will she survive? And I think when we got past that, it was just sort of this, you know, head in the pink cloud and rainbow. Yeah, it's good. She's alive and that's all that matters, you know?
Ellyn Schinke (09:07.405)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (09:16.653)
Yeah, we're so happy you're here. Yeah. Yeah.
Jaclyn (09:22.19)
So I was really blessed because particularly my mother, she brought all of my food to the hospital because she just doesn't believe in the quality of the food. I know, right? But I think everybody else, you know, they just kept saying, we're here for you, we're here for you. And the naysayers that you're talking about came into my life later as I shifted from...
Ellyn Schinke (09:24.301)
That's good.
Ellyn Schinke (09:31.149)
Hospital food. Go mom!
Ellyn Schinke (09:42.797)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (09:48.846)
you know, making a traditional career. So I was working in the motorcycle industry at the time. And so as I shifted from. Right. Yeah. Exactly. And so as I shifted away from that and into more like, I want to work in the healing arts. I want to get into the soul version of ourselves. You know, I want to delve into that kind of stuff. And I want to continue to ride a motorcycle. And that there was definitely a lot of resistance that.
Ellyn Schinke (09:49.133)
Ooh.
Ellyn Schinke (09:54.509)
make sense why you were on a motorcycle when this happened then. Okay, okay.
Ellyn Schinke (10:14.157)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (10:17.614)
but pushed back there. And I think that actually helped me in my case kind of double down on this idea like I get to be the boss of my life. I realize this is not a decision that you would make. And I understand and absolutely respect that because of course from a logical perspective, it doesn't make sense. And if I'm gonna have joy, if I'm gonna find fulfillment, if I'm gonna be the human that I wanna be in the world, I have to be able to do the things that I believe are the right thing for me that I want to do. And I...
Ellyn Schinke (10:27.085)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (10:32.461)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (10:41.293)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (10:45.102)
I want to take just a little sidebar here and celebrate your bravery in doing the thing you did, because in my version, I was sort of like given a pass, you know, like she had this terrible thing happen. We're just going to let her be crazy for a while. It's fine. And, and in your version, you had to really summon that courage from within to, you know, make a delineated hardline decision that was contrary to what a lot of people maybe thought was right for you. And that's, that takes,
Ellyn Schinke (10:47.021)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (11:13.71)
guts babe like well done.
Ellyn Schinke (11:15.149)
Thank you. Thank you. You know, it's funny that we're recording this today after I got back from that conference because I was really, it was interesting. The first day of this conference is completely side tangent from where we're going and what we're talking about. But at this conference, the very first day, I feel like I was kind of judgmental of myself. Like I was, like when they were asking us questions that were forcing us to critique, but when I go into critique, sometimes I go into critique and I go hard.
Jaclyn (11:28.078)
I love it.
Ellyn Schinke (11:44.013)
into critique, especially because I don't feel like… I don't… And I said this, I was like, I resonate so much with being a coach and being a speaker. Those labels feel so good to me, but being an entrepreneur and a business owner, those labels really don't. I feel like I'm at this stage where I really need to start treating my business like a business. Thinking about all of the things that people tell us we need to be as entrepreneurs, we need to take risks, we just need to own it.
Jaclyn (11:53.55)
All right, let's go.
Jaclyn (12:05.806)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (12:12.877)
And I didn't feel like I was doing that. And so my critique was coming from a place of like, I need to stop being so risk averse and stop being such a chicken shit and just like dive in and own it. And then I woke up Thursday morning, this was only a two day conference. So that was like day one was kind of me in that head space of being kind of judgmental of myself and my path. Well, simultaneously also just like having understanding for like why I did it that way. Like I have never been somebody, I am a little risk averse. Like I'll take,
Jaclyn (12:38.286)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (12:41.901)
calculated risks, but I am a bit risk -reverse. But I also think I'm just like practical. Like I am not gonna set myself up for failure when I don't feel like I have enough data to support my success. I'm a scientist. So like I gave myself some grace in that sense, but I was, I think, a little judgmental of my journey. And then I woke up Thursday morning and one of the first thoughts I had is like, what the hell am I doing judging my journey? Because I've taken some big ass risks.
Jaclyn (12:46.862)
You're mine.
Jaclyn (12:52.558)
Yes, I love that.
Ellyn Schinke (13:09.421)
over the course of my career. I dropped out of my PhD and that is honestly one of the, we're joking about this, I put that in dating profiles and I feel like I immediately intimidate the fuck out of people. Sorry guys, we're swearing today. I feel like I immediately intimidate people because that is one of, when people ask me about my proudest accomplishments, that's one of my proudest accomplishments is dropping out of my PhD program. I'm so proud of the fact that I did that. And I was just like, that was a massive risk.
Jaclyn (13:22.35)
Yes, it's gonna be, yeah.
Jaclyn (13:30.382)
Yes, I love that!
Ellyn Schinke (13:38.445)
I went even when I changed careers after that, I wasn't attracted to be in a leadership part of the company that I tutor and do education for. I stepped down from that for my business. I made some moves in my life that people, I gave $5 ,000 to a company on the internet so that I could travel with them for a year.
Jaclyn (14:00.014)
I love that. Yes!
Ellyn Schinke (14:00.237)
Like I've taken risks that people would be like, what the hell are you doing? And I don't think sometimes we give ourselves credit for the risks that we took because everybody else's risks seem so much bigger. Like I don't feel like sometimes I give myself credit for my story because you have a story that's so much like, whoa, she almost died. And it's like that comparison is so shitty. Sorry, that's my tangent.
Jaclyn (14:10.03)
Yes.
Jaclyn (14:20.046)
Nice.
Jaclyn (14:23.822)
Well, no, I love this and I want to add to it just for a second. Because one of my first things, one of my barriers in being able to connect to people is that, you know, that the story is extreme, but it's just a story. And my extreme version is not any different or worse or more intense or more scary or any of that than anybody else's. Like looking back on my life, the accident, that...
Ellyn Schinke (14:27.053)
Yeah, absolutely.
Ellyn Schinke (14:47.309)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (14:50.798)
particular one was not the scariest thing that I've ever been through. Heartbreak was the scariest hardest thing I've ever been through. You know, massive, I live in South America in Columbia now, leaving my life in the United States. I'm in Medellin.
Ellyn Schinke (15:03.693)
Where in Columbia do you live by the way?
I lived in Medellin for a month in 2018. I love Medellin. Medellin, Colombia is also my favorite country I've ever traveled to. My favorite city I've ever traveled to is Prague, but my favorite country I've ever traveled to is Colombia. I saw your time zone when you booked a call and I was just like, that must be a mistake. She can't be in Colombia. my God, that's so cool. Okay, sorry, continue.
Jaclyn (15:10.158)
Really?
Jaclyn (15:16.494)
Yes. Yes.
Jaclyn (15:24.078)
Yes!
Jaclyn (15:31.406)
Yes. What? I love this. I love this.
Ellyn Schinke (15:37.165)
I went waterfall repelling outside of Columbia. They taught us how to do it in Spanish and then they were like, okay, okay, go.
Jaclyn (15:45.518)
Yes! Yes, yes, yes! I got stuck here because I fell in love with a Colombian guide, an adventure guide that does those... Well, that one didn't work out, but the new one's better, so...
Ellyn Schinke (15:52.973)
I should have fallen in love with the Colombian guy and I didn't want to leave. There's time. There's still time. I can still fall in love with the Colombian.
Jaclyn (16:02.062)
You've got all the time in the world, babe.
And you got a place to stay if you want to.
Ellyn Schinke (16:07.885)
into topics but I also feel like this is girl talk and I freaking love it.
Jaclyn (16:12.75)
Likewise.
Likewise.
Ellyn Schinke (16:16.589)
my God, we're okay. So your story, yeah, continue, continue riffing off of that. my God. I'm like, I gotta pull it back. Told you guys we're gonna laugh a lot today.
Jaclyn (16:19.182)
Yes.
Jaclyn (16:25.838)
I love it so much. Yes, I hope so. I hope everybody is laughing alongside us as we're doing this, or as they're listening. Yeah, so I just really think it's important for all of us to keep in mind that the worst experience is only the worst experience. And they come in a variety of contexts. Like, healing my body was not the hard part. Healing my ability to trust myself.
Ellyn Schinke (16:31.085)
Heheheheh
Ellyn Schinke (16:41.389)
Mm.
Ellyn Schinke (16:48.685)
Your heart. Yeah.
Jaclyn (16:49.966)
my courage, my desire to get back on the motorcycle did not match my feeling of confidence getting back on a motorcycle afterwards. Those were the things that actually were hard. Those were the things that actually I grew from, if I'm honest about it. And that's the stuff that's universal. Regardless of the catalyst, whatever the catalyst was, the emotional personal experience, that mental battle that we all have to go through, that's the stuff that's like, that you...
Ellyn Schinke (17:07.437)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (17:17.902)
We can't compare, but we can share with each other to support and move forward, you know?
Ellyn Schinke (17:20.205)
Mm -hmm.
And I think the thing that I'm seeing as you tell your story, and I hope people who are listening are seeing as well, is I've never had a near -death experience, but I still see myself in your story. I still see parts of it that I can relate to that. I experienced that too. It looked different. And I think that's, maybe that's the difference between Ellen in her 20s versus Ellen in her 30s, or even Ellen in her early 30s versus Ellen now. It's like...
Jaclyn (17:34.03)
yeah!
Jaclyn (17:39.726)
Yes.
Jaclyn (17:46.318)
You're welcome.
Ellyn Schinke (17:49.165)
I feel like I used to look at people's stories and be like, mine will never be as impressive as that. And now I look at people's stories and I'm like, I can see myself in that, even if it's super different. And I love that. So tell me a little bit, because I think the coolest, I think the thing that I enjoyed the most about what you said you wanted to talk about today is the reframing your perspective on success. Like how did this whole process?
Jaclyn (18:02.062)
Yes!
Ellyn Schinke (18:16.365)
reframe your perspective on success. Because I can see how it might feel like so many of the things that felt like they were markers of the quality of your life were taken away from you.
Jaclyn (18:32.238)
Absolutely. Absolutely. You nailed it. There were a couple of layers, and that was the first one that I really had to deal with immediately after the accident, was like, what kind of life can I have? What kind of beauty can I feel in myself as a person without an external container that reflects the depth of soul that I think I have, whatever? And that was a genuine battle. It really was for a long time. But...
Ellyn Schinke (18:41.037)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (19:02.254)
As I transitioned into this more, you know, like digging my heels in ever deeper to this idea that I wanted to be able to support people in being their best selves, in manifesting the life they really want, in connecting to themselves and to their lives and to their partners in a more robust way or more authentic way. There was a lot of like, you know, you don't answer an online ad for a job like that and get 100 grand a year. It just doesn't work that way.
Ellyn Schinke (19:27.629)
Mm -hmm.
Yep.
Jaclyn (19:31.47)
There was a lot of, I had to really grapple with for a long time, this idea that my success would be marked outside of myself in some way, and particularly by money. This, you know, if I just work harder, if I just work harder, if I just work harder, there will eventually be more money, there will eventually be more clients, there will eventually be more. And so I think that the actual turning point happened for me, the success point happened for me when I realized that...
Ellyn Schinke (19:42.445)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (19:57.838)
There's a couple of things and from the outside version, you know, the public facing part of measurement of success. I wanted to be authentically helpful. I wanted clients that were thrilled about spending the money that they did with me because I was genuinely improving their lives in some way. I didn't want, you know, thousands of clients that I was just kind of, you know, helping in some minor way. You know, I want a deep.
Ellyn Schinke (20:24.621)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (20:27.118)
I wanted deep support. And the other thing I think was this like, why do we work hard? You know, like, I don't need to amass a ton of wealth. I don't want a yacht. I don't need, you know, houses in six countries. I don't want that. That's like the quality of life. What I want is the freedom to be able to go repel in the mountains in Columbia on a random Thursday, if I feel like it. You know what I mean?
Ellyn Schinke (20:46.893)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (20:53.837)
It was kick ass guys, I can't even tell you. I should share with this podcast, I should share some of the pictures from that. Because actually, it was really fun because I was traveling that entire year in 2018. I spent six months in Latin America. But that particular event, my parents, I had just been in Peru, we just done Machu Picchu and my parents, I realized I wanted my like big, I have a DSLR camera and I wanted my big like zoom for my DSLR camera. My parents literally shipped it down to Colombia or to Peru for me to use.
Jaclyn (20:59.886)
please do.
Jaclyn (21:06.03)
Love them.
Jaclyn (21:16.942)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (21:22.925)
the rest of the year. And the first day that I used that big DSLR zoom was in Columbia when we were waterfall repelling. And I was like a designated like, like action photographer for everybody the entire day. And I got some badass photos of the people that I was waterfall repelling from. The photos of me are decent. The guy who took them did a pretty good job. But yeah, I've got to play like action photographer. I was like, I never knew I wanted to be like a, like an action photographer. And it was really fun.
Jaclyn (21:33.87)
YES!
Jaclyn (21:37.614)
Yes!
Jaclyn (21:53.87)
I love that. And that's a perfect transition if I can latch onto it and use it in that way. Because that's the whole thing. If we keep our heads down and work just to make money, we are blinded by or blind to the other opportunities that may be coming from areas in our life that are just about enjoyment. And that, honestly, if you love the thing you're doing, you can make a career out of being an adventure photographer, absolutely. And if you hadn't given yourself that
Ellyn Schinke (21:57.453)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Ellyn Schinke (22:15.213)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (22:21.517)
I probably could, yeah.
Jaclyn (22:23.566)
freedom to go and experience that thing and do that thing, you would never have even known that that was, I shouldn't say never, but you know what I mean? Like there's this wall that gets put up about, you know, the way that inspiration comes into our lives, creativity comes into our lives. And there's actually a ton of beautiful science around the idea that when we're resting, when we're bored, that's when our creativity is sparked and really active. And if we can, yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (22:31.853)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (22:50.349)
And I bet when we play too. Yeah.
Jaclyn (22:52.718)
Exactly. So the idea of success being more about like creating a stable foundation from which we can play, from which we can give ourselves the freedom to rest, from which we can give ourselves the luxury of rest, that helped me a lot to really embody this, a different kind of energy about what success looked like. And that helped me a lot in, I think, actually eventually creating clients. You know, I had a lot of
Ellyn Schinke (23:02.605)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (23:20.813)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (23:21.518)
come to me later. And I think that in part it was because that shift focused from, you know, the number in my bank account to how much downtime I got to give myself, how much freedom I got to give myself, how much play I got to have, you know.
Ellyn Schinke (23:31.245)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting. This conversation is reminding me of, dude, this conference. It's reminding me of an aha that I had this week. And it's just something that's kind of been percolating in the background for me for a while. I accidentally started speaking. It was not a plan. This might be mourning me just waking up not too long ago, clearing my throat. We'll see if I edit this out. But like speaking was an accident in my life. I didn't.
Jaclyn (23:50.158)
Ooh, I love this.
Jaclyn (23:57.326)
No problem.
Ellyn Schinke (24:04.173)
I never envisioned my business being around speaking, ever. And I think there's a big part of me that has resisted growth in my speaking business because of that. But I started speaking. I actually, my very first speaking engagement was unpaid. I asked my friend if I could speak at her. She had like this health and fitness event and I knew I wanted to get into speaking and I asked her if I could speak at it and kind of tell my story and what I'd learned about myself and whatnot.
Jaclyn (24:25.262)
Cool.
Ellyn Schinke (24:33.901)
And I think a part of it came from, like if I really think about it, I used to do musical theater. I never was a lead. I always was like in the chorus, but I used to do musical theater. I used to do like vocal performance and I was in choir and I did, I played piano. I grew up being like me on a stage in front of people performing. And I think it was almost like a way of bringing that back into my life.
in a way that actually felt even better than a lot of those did. I sometimes, I absolutely hated performing, you know, with piano because when I get nervous, my hands shake and the mistakes happen. And then when I'm singing and I get nervous, like my vocal cords like constrict and I don't feel like I can control them as well, but I am comfortable being up on stage. I've done it my entire life. So I wanted to get into speaking and I remember how much fun it was to speak at her event. And then COVID happened and the world went to shit.
Jaclyn (25:01.198)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (25:30.126)
Thanks everybody.
Ellyn Schinke (25:30.605)
But then people started reaching out to me during COVID because I will be completely honest and I joke about it all the time and I feel bad saying it, but it's the fact COVID was really good for business as a burnout coach. Like COVID was really good for business. And people started reaching out to me because I have really good SEO on my website and saying, Hey, do you do, I see that you're a burnout coach. Do you do speaking? And it was just like, well, I don't, sure. Like I just never like thought this was going to be a part of my business, at least a big part, but sure.
Jaclyn (25:40.142)
huh.
Yep.
Jaclyn (25:50.286)
Yes.
Jaclyn (25:54.382)
Yep.
Ellyn Schinke (26:00.461)
And then it started happening more and more and more. And then I was like, well, maybe I should create a speaking page and just like lean into this. Then it started happening more and more and more. Speaking has been the biggest income driver in my business for years. And I think that's with me kind of being like, but I'm a coach. I just happened to speak. And now I've been having this pivot where I'm starting to realize I should just lean into, I am a speaker who coaches. Like, what if I flipped that? And it's actually, that's been kind of how my identity shifted over the course of my life.
Jaclyn (26:00.622)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (26:05.71)
Less.
Jaclyn (26:10.99)
Run.
Jaclyn (26:16.11)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (26:22.254)
Yeah!
Ellyn Schinke (26:27.949)
has been stuff like that of kind of me being like, I like this. Maybe I should just like flip my titles. I'm not a scientist anymore. I'm a coach and I happen to do a little bit of science. But I think the reason I'm bringing this up and the reason why I was reminded of this is I literally think that part of my life originated from something I used to do as a child, like some sort of play and hobby activity that I used to do as a child. And it originated from me realizing that what I want in my life,
Jaclyn (26:28.078)
How cool.
Jaclyn (26:36.622)
Yes.
Jaclyn (26:47.31)
Ooh.
Ellyn Schinke (26:56.429)
I and any of my clients who are listening to this, I love you. This is not me saying I don't love you. I've realized what I want in my life is I want less on my calendar. I want to be able to like, frankly, if I'm speaking, I want to be able to work like twice a month at speaking gigs and have the income I bring in from those twice a month speaking engagements free up the rest of my life, free me up.
Jaclyn (26:59.438)
Yeah
Jaclyn (27:06.158)
Yeah!
Jaclyn (27:14.094)
Huh?
Jaclyn (27:21.87)
Nice.
Ellyn Schinke (27:22.669)
to work with fewer clients, free me up to be able to play and experiment in my coaching business and figure out what I like and what I want and what resonates. I've realized that if I lean into speaking, speaking can create, and one of my core values is freedom, speaking can create the freedom I want in the rest of my life. It can create the financial freedom, it can create the location freedom, because shit, I'm talking to a speaking gig that they're going to fly me to Tampa in August, and I have another speaking gig that's going to fly me to Boston in like three weeks.
Jaclyn (27:37.582)
Yeah.
Yes.
Jaclyn (27:52.558)
I love the word!
Ellyn Schinke (27:52.621)
Which like, and that's the travel bug in me. I do like to travel. I don't like to live out of a suitcase, but I do like to travel. And I'm realizing, I think I resisted it for a really long time because it wasn't the vision I had for myself. But as soon as I thought about my values and the lifestyle that I want for myself and stopped focusing on the finances of it and just focused on how is this going to impact my quality of life, it shifted.
Jaclyn (28:00.302)
Yes.
Jaclyn (28:05.806)
Yes.
Jaclyn (28:13.838)
Yes.
Jaclyn (28:18.83)
Yes. Exactly. And I think we're better at what we're doing, whatever it is, if we can come from that place of passion. And I'm not saying that, you know, obviously there are lots of people that are making great money, living beautifully successful lives, and their work is something that is really common. And maybe that isn't the thing that fills them up. Maybe their work in and of itself, the way they make money, exactly, just pays the bills.
Ellyn Schinke (28:21.229)
It shifted so much.
Ellyn Schinke (28:31.213)
Mm.
Ellyn Schinke (28:42.637)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. It just pays the bills. Yeah. Yeah.
Jaclyn (28:48.238)
And there's nothing wrong with that. But finding that balance where you can also immerse yourself in experiences that light you up, that inspire you, that fills you up, that whole cliche idea of you can't give to others unless your cup is full, it's just true.
Ellyn Schinke (28:55.981)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (29:03.853)
It's true. It is. And I say all the time, burnout is not about... Actually, I haven't said this as much, but I'm starting to realize this. I don't believe burnout's about overwork. If burnout was about overwork, I would be the most burned out human because I've been working... I work a lot and I actually feel like this is the detriment that people don't talk about enough when you're single. When you're single and or when you're childless, I don't have anything to pull me away from my work. I can just keep working.
Jaclyn (29:13.262)
Right.
I'm sorry.
Jaclyn (29:24.334)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (29:29.95)
Yeah. Boundary.
Ellyn Schinke (29:31.565)
So I don't think it's about overwork. I think it's about how much you're pouring into yourself. And I don't even think it's about how much your work is pouring into yourself. It is about how much you are pouring into yourself. If your work pours into you, awesome. But your work cannot pour into you and you can work a shit ton and still pour into yourself and still have an absolutely vibrant.
Jaclyn (29:37.838)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (29:41.454)
Yes. Yes.
Jaclyn (29:48.206)
Yes!
Jaclyn (29:53.358)
Absolutely, absolutely. And shifting that perspective also does this beautiful thing in terms of your emotional or spiritual wellbeing, let's say, because you're sending yourself then a message all the time that I am also a priority. Yes, my work is important, paying my bills is important, creating a retirement fund that I can rely on, all that stuff, whatever. But I am enough of a priority that if I wanna take a day on the beach and read a book, I'm gonna do that.
Ellyn Schinke (30:08.653)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (30:13.645)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (30:19.821)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (30:19.822)
You know, like I deserve that. And I think that that mentality shift also beautifully, cyclically supports more clients, more energy, more motivation, more, you know, drive all of the things that we need to keep pushing us forward in whatever context we are actually making, you know, physical money.
Ellyn Schinke (30:22.573)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (30:30.157)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (30:38.509)
I 100 % agree with that. I feel like I've focused in the past and I'm not a human to model your business after in terms of marketing success and whatnot. I do though think, especially in recent months and years, I focused more on creating the lifestyle that I want. And I think the aspiration, and frankly, the lifestyle that I want is not sexy. Like I don't live in Columbia.
Jaclyn (30:47.022)
Bye.
Ellyn Schinke (31:04.237)
my, the lifestyle that I want is the ability to go on like a beautiful walk by the water in the middle of the day and go work out in the middle of the day. And eventually when I have the capacity to deal with this crap again, to start dating again, like that's, I want to be able, I want to be able to build work around my life and not life around my work. And I think the more that I've.
Jaclyn (31:32.206)
Yes.
Ellyn Schinke (31:34.285)
at least have tried to focus on the aspiration of what I'm creating and modeling that and showing that and being able to fricking drop everything and go to a conference in the middle of the week for two days. That's the kind of lifestyle I've created and that's the kind of lifestyle I want to show. And I think that's honestly benefited me a lot in terms of what I'm drawing into my life and the kind of business I'm bringing in. And it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. One thing I want to ask you.
Jaclyn (31:40.782)
All right.
Jaclyn (31:45.486)
Yes.
Jaclyn (31:58.222)
Yes. Yes.
Ellyn Schinke (32:04.493)
that I keep thinking about is you talked about kind of earlier when you were talking about the work that you wanted to step into. And this was not in our what we should talk about list, but I've thought of it and I want to ask you about it. This is how I roll when I interview people. I'm like, we can have a rough game plan, but like if my brain goes somewhere, we're going with it. You mentioned like kind of spirit and connecting with, you know, what was it you said? God, force, whatever, like your eye.
Jaclyn (32:13.486)
I love going off script.
Jaclyn (32:18.798)
Yes.
Jaclyn (32:22.638)
Yes! I love that!
Ellyn Schinke (32:34.253)
I am admittedly not a woo -woo human in the slightest. I think it's a scientist in me. I'm a little averse to it. But I also know that that's probably a side of myself that I need to lean into more. And I'm sure there's a lot of people in this sphere, in this community who are listening to this, like seriously raise your hand if that's you because you know it is, who are similar and know that they could perhaps benefit.
Jaclyn (32:36.91)
Yes.
Jaclyn (32:40.91)
What?
Jaclyn (32:47.31)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:57.646)
Yes, right.
Ellyn Schinke (33:03.565)
from getting in touch with that part of themselves, but A, don't know how and have kind of their own internal biases that they're fighting against with that. So how would you, firstly, I would ask, what does it look like when you're talking about kind of spirit and getting connected to that, what does that even look like? And for people who are like me, who are a little averse to it, have their own personal biases against this, how would you kind of recommend they open themselves up to something like that? Because I do think there's beautiful connection that comes from that.
Jaclyn (33:06.222)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (33:11.342)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (33:29.998)
Okay.
Jaclyn (33:33.742)
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I want to just pause and jump back a little bit because this idea of what we should do and shouldn't do, and I certainly don't want to should.
Ellyn Schinke (33:43.597)
Actually, I like that you're calling that out, because I hate that word, too. And if I said it, I didn't realize I did.
Jaclyn (33:49.006)
No, I don't forget it. I do it all the time. And it's another one of those things where I'm like, okay, but I want to reframe that. And this is a good example of the way that I'm talking about aligning with that God force, because it's really just an energy. When I'm saying should, is that a, I feel like I need to do this for another person, for another reason. Is there guilt involved? Or is it like a, I really want to be doing this. And can I rephrase it in a way that I can align with that feels true to me?
Ellyn Schinke (34:13.261)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (34:17.838)
and operate from that. Now, if it's something for somebody else that isn't necessary and doesn't feed me in any way, I'm not doing that, you know?
Ellyn Schinke (34:24.429)
Yeah, I love that. I call that a disempowering should and an empowering should. A disempowering should is a should that you do for somebody else and that's completely from outside of you. An empowering should is something that you actually believe in.
Jaclyn (34:29.102)
Woo, yes!
Jaclyn (34:36.91)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, and right there, you touched on the idea that because from a, you know, outside of the woo woo, let's say, in a more pragmatic, from a more pragmatic standpoint, my belief system is just built around the idea of energy and the way that we can adjust our energies, you know. And again, there's so much beautiful science around how energy impacts us.
Ellyn Schinke (34:49.005)
Heheheheh
Jaclyn (35:06.094)
and how we can adjust our realities, change our realities by changing our energy. And you can think about it in the simplest terms, like when you're having a ton of fun with your friends and four hours flies by like it's 15 minutes. And when you're sitting in front of your computer doing something that you hate doing, 15 minutes feels like four hours. That's an energy thing. It's because you're... Yeah, please do.
Ellyn Schinke (35:18.989)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (35:27.117)
give you another example from the conference too. There was a guy who spoke at the conference who actually it's really funny if you heard this. So the very first day he was there, he only spoke the second day, but he came to the entire event. And the very first day he was there, there was a number of us that were really irritated because he was like talking in the back of the room and it was so irritating. So like my energy when I first met him, I was just like, I'm fucking irritated with you.
Jaclyn (35:54.446)
Yes! Yes!
Ellyn Schinke (35:56.461)
want you I actually ignored him the first time he kind of came over into my space. I would just leave it to him. I feel like a dick about doing that because then the next day he came and he actually talked and he was frankly our speaker for the majority of the day. Super insightful learned a ton from him. And I feel like I was just like I need to I need to glean what I can from him because he's here for a reason. She has him on today as much as possible. Like for a reason.
Jaclyn (36:05.134)
No!
Jaclyn (36:26.222)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (36:26.381)
And so I had to like, like make an intention to shift my energy toward him because I was so like, I was so like grumpy and like, like closed off to him when I first met him, cause I was just irritated about earlier that day. like that's energy too. I feel like that is perhaps the most relatable way to talk about energy is think about the person that you were closed off to because they did something to piss you off and then opening yourself up to that person.
Jaclyn (36:30.414)
Yes. Good luck.
Jaclyn (36:40.622)
Yes.
Jaclyn (36:50.51)
Yep.
Yes, exactly. Or even, you know, if you're having a shit day or you're, you know, devolved into tears or something like that, and your very dearest friend comes and hugs you, that's a completely different experience and healing thing than if some random stranger gives you a hug. Not that the stranger's hug isn't also useful, but the point is just that there is a force, and I use that term to, you know, sort of umbrella over the idea of energy.
Ellyn Schinke (36:58.957)
Hmm?
Ellyn Schinke (37:06.733)
That's true too.
Ellyn Schinke (37:12.429)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (37:20.782)
as a directive, as something that we can align with, adjust, manipulate, make choices about. If we're having a shit day, especially if we're feeling particularly overwhelmed or burned out, that's an opportunity to just acknowledge that, like, okay, my energy is not good in this moment, and do exactly what you're talking about doing, where we make a conscious decision to shift that. I'm going to...
gives myself some self care, or I'm going to change the way that I perceive this person in front of me that's just a thorn in my side in some way. Or, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, whatever you think.
Ellyn Schinke (37:52.877)
even a thorn. I was just irritated with the day before. I get very, very feisty sometimes. I had a friend when I was actually doing remote year and I was traveling and she was like, it takes a lot to piss you off, but when you get triggered, you are pissed. And I was like, that's accurate. That's highly accurate. My ex -boyfriends will vouch.
Jaclyn (38:01.454)
I'm just like...
Jaclyn (38:08.142)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (38:14.798)
mine as well! i am all sunshine and roses until i'm mad and then like look the fuck out cuz i -
Ellyn Schinke (38:18.893)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually, this is maybe an unintentional transition of ours, but I've had this kind of lingering thing in the back of my mind of you. So you had this experience that, as you said, damaged your legs in a lot of ways. And as you said before, your legs are quote, not pretty. I actually, if you are open to it, and if you aren't, I will edit this part out.
Jaclyn (38:38.478)
Yeah.
Yeah, no.
Ellyn Schinke (38:47.373)
If you are open to it, I had a curiosity of what was it like to date knowing that that had happened to you? Because I'm single and I know there are people in my world who are, if not single, they're dating and they're unmarried. I feel like that's something that a lot of us women deal with is when we have physical imperfections, putting ourselves out there in the dating world is really, really hard. What was that like for you, if you don't mind my asking?
Jaclyn (38:55.79)
It was time.
Jaclyn (39:07.406)
Yes.
Jaclyn (39:13.614)
Yes.
no, I'm honestly ecstatic that you asked because this is one of those places I think where my journey really started was about self love in the whole idea of spiritual, emotional maturity and growth, whatever development. And it started with the physical thing. I, one of my, I'm going to call him a friend, whatever, old, old gentleman, like a pseudo grandfather that was in my life at the time of the accident gave me unsolicited advice and he meant well.
Ellyn Schinke (39:27.885)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (39:45.806)
but he said, you better let men know, you know, if you're gonna like share your bed with anybody, you better let them know that you're not normally formed because that, and I think he's trying to protect me from that shock of them, you know, running their hand on my leg in some sexy romantic comedy movie way or whatever, and then being like, whoa, there's this huge hole and there's all this scarring everywhere and it's all malformed and whatever. And so that scared me, of course. And I really went into,
Ellyn Schinke (40:00.557)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (40:13.917)
Especially when you're in your 20s. Is that when that conversation happened? Yeah. That would be hard to hear in your 20s.
Jaclyn (40:17.07)
Yeah!
Jaclyn (40:21.646)
Not only was I in my 20s, but I was at that like 27 year old, you know, when you start to realize that 30 is coming and that it's not going to be as, you know, glamorous as you had thought. Like I didn't feel like I was where I thought I should be at 27 years old, whatever.
Ellyn Schinke (40:28.461)
Mm -hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (40:34.765)
Yeah, 13 going on 30. I blame that movie because we are all expecting to be 30 flirty and thriving and we were not.
Jaclyn (40:37.966)
Jaclyn (40:42.734)
I wasn't even prepared to know how to be 30 thriving like yeah, whatever. I know not at all. Yes. So I really did have a he had kind of planted this, you know, fear in my mind and I actually did a little road trip by myself to, you know, figure out how to be okay in this new body by myself in the world single, you know, whatever the whole thing.
Ellyn Schinke (40:48.269)
So funny.
Jaclyn (41:08.494)
And I just had this moment of I had been running myself down and how will anybody ever love me and I'll never be able to truly be sexy and I'm not gonna be able to move in a normal way, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. Super, super big pity party. Like I had balloons and the whole shebang, you know? And I had this moment where I was like, you know what? I am so fucking lucky. I am so lucky to have these legs, my legs. They're not aluminum or whatever.
God bless the incredible humans that are embracing that version of reality. And I doubled down on that. And I continued to just celebrate the body that I had as awkward and misshapen and unhealthy and overweight and all of the things that I had shamed it for for so long. And I gotta tell you, so I was a kid that had acne really bad growing up, all into my 20s even.
And after I had that conscious, like, I am not, I'm going to stop beating myself up about my body. Like I am lucky to have a body and to be here experiencing this life. The fact that I can walk at all or move or breathe even is a gift. And if it's going to be a gift, then I want to enjoy it. And I got it literally within like a month, my skin totally cleared up. And I just had this like, and people, men in my life were like, what did you do? You are, you look completely different.
Ellyn Schinke (42:33.709)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (42:33.774)
And it was fundamentally acceptance, self -acceptance and deep, genuine love that I built for myself. Because I want to say, this is, I want to preface this by saying the external quality of a human obviously has nothing to do with the quality of the human, hard stop. And, and I really felt like I would never be able to have a beautiful man in my life.
Ellyn Schinke (42:41.741)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (42:52.373)
Yeah, hard stop.
Jaclyn (43:01.902)
and I'm a Leo and I like beautiful things and you know, whatever. And immediately, right? Exactly. Leo!
Ellyn Schinke (43:06.061)
Who doesn't like a beautiful man? Come on now. I don't even know how my, like, my astrological sign really, I'm a Taurus. So I'm a bull, I'm stubborn. Yeah, that's been a problem in my dating life. Yeah, but I appreciate a beautiful man.
Jaclyn (43:22.286)
Right? Don't we all? Yes. And I just gave up, like, I'm not going to be worth that. And every man that came into my life for any length of time after that, and I'm, I, this is going to sound so braggy and I don't mean it to be, but was like model level beautiful. Like these are gorgeous men that, that we're choosing to be with this terribly misshapen, traditionally speaking, unattractive woman.
Ellyn Schinke (43:36.877)
care. Say it.
Ellyn Schinke (43:49.805)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (43:49.806)
me, you know, that I was. And I realized that the thing that they were attracted to was my energy because I just had this easiness about me. I wasn't shitting on myself. I wasn't criticizing myself. I wasn't criticizing them. They didn't have to be perfect in front of me either. There was just this like comfort, you know? And I think that that was something that up until that point I hadn't understood. I had been so bitter and angry at myself, to myself.
because of myself, that I had made it uncomfortable. I couldn't relax in a relationship. I couldn't feel beautiful. I couldn't feel sexy. I couldn't own the energy when I walked into the bedroom. Like, lights off, covers over my head, please. Like, please, I don't want you to actually see my body or anything. And the thing that's attractive is the sexiness that we show in the world, that we radiate out into the world. Women, humans, all of us have this like profound...
beauty in the way that we are. The thing that attaches us to people that we love about people is the weird little smile that they have or that funny thing that that nobody else laughs at but just this person laughs at or the way that they scream when they stub their toe or you know what I mean? Like it's those little things.
Ellyn Schinke (45:00.269)
Mm -hmm.
My ex boyfriend, I will never forget this, my ex boyfriend was just like, I remember he came up to me one day and he was just like, what was that laugh? And I was like, what do you mean? And he was just like, you have different laughs. What was that one? And he and I was just like, what are my different laughs? And he's like, well, you laugh when you do this and you laugh when you do this. And I was like, my God, this is so accurate. Like I have kind of like a like a patronizing but like a I'm going to laugh just because I feel like it's polite to laugh. I have like that kind of a chuckle. And then I have like a
Jaclyn (45:13.774)
Yes!
Ellyn Schinke (45:32.173)
explosive, like throw my head back laugh. Like I am like, sometimes when I laugh, I have like full body laughter. Like it is not a half ass laugh. And yeah, I remember I always thought that was so sweet that he was like, what laugh is that you have different laughs? And I was like, I didn't realize I had different laughs. That's so sweet.
Jaclyn (45:38.894)
Yes.
Jaclyn (45:48.238)
Yes!
And that's the thing that enamors us to each other, human to human, regardless of sex or gender or age or even the context of the relationship. You know, the thing that I'm complimented on more than anything else ever is my energy, my spirit, my lightness, my playfulness, whatever it is, you know? I think we all have that, but we put a cover over that. We like...
Ellyn Schinke (45:56.365)
Hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (46:08.749)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (46:17.07)
dim our own light, so to speak, because we don't like who we are on a fundamental level. We're critical of ourselves on a fundamental level. And so it doesn't allow us to shine out into the world in this big, beautiful way that is the attractive part of us. We end up hiding the attractive part because we're critical or decide that our container isn't good enough. And they don't give a shit about the container. I think most of them are just not creative. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (46:19.533)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (46:30.605)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (46:37.357)
Yeah. That's such an interesting, our container isn't.
This is like, my wheels are turning in this conversation because it's actually, I'm gonna say the conference again, you guys, I'm sorry. We did this thing, the very last activity we did, and my God, I bawled when I got to my turn. We went around the room and it was, we did this thing called, I think she called it The Beauty I See in You, and it was, we spent two days together.
Jaclyn (46:47.758)
Yes!
Jaclyn (46:52.238)
Yeah
Ellyn Schinke (47:10.509)
And though I didn't get to know like everybody in the room very well, we spent two days together and I at least have like a sense of them. I had like a vibe at the very least of them. And so what we did is we went around the room and we told the person next to us, this is the beauty I see in you. And I bawled because it was lovely hearing the things that somebody said about me, but I bawled because damn her. She made me talk about the woman who connected me to her, who's been my coach for the last nine months or so.
seven months, I've worked with her in a business capacity and then she does business coaching and health and personal training and nutrition coaching. So I did her business mastermind and then I did her health coaching program. And I like, I was like, she said, I want you to do this person, Katie is her name. She's like, I want you to do Katie. And I literally go, no, I can't even look at her. And I like started crying before I even started because, but it was, and I'm bringing this up.
Jaclyn (47:45.774)
money.
Ellyn Schinke (48:07.021)
because somebody said about me that I was confident. And I even said it when I was talking about Katie, like I admire so much her confidence and her comfort in herself and her authenticity. And I literally turned to the girl, I was like, I appreciate that comment so much, but I've never seen that in myself. I don't see myself as being confident. But actually now I think about it, I think I'm confident in those rooms. I think I'm confident when I'm around women.
Jaclyn (48:11.278)
Yes!
Jaclyn (48:30.894)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (48:35.149)
In particular, women that I know are doing the same things as me have, like because we're doing the same things, I know we innately have the same values and I feel that energy. I feel that support from them, but it doesn't translate over to dating and relationships for me. It can. In parts, very particular context, I appreciate dating and relationships that aren't forced. I appreciate when I, I don't know, meet somebody at a coffee shop or like when I'm going out for a walk or whatever and I'm just.
Jaclyn (48:48.046)
Yes.
Jaclyn (49:01.262)
Yes.
Ellyn Schinke (49:03.596)
in my own space and in my own self and just going about my life and I meet somebody, I can be myself in those situations. But as soon as it's immediately draped in a, we met on a dating app and we are literally meeting each other because we are like trying to figure out if we like want to date. As soon as I'm in those contexts, I don't feel like I myself. And I feel like I put on a facade to seem confident, even though I am inwardly being like,
Jaclyn (49:09.966)
Yes.
Jaclyn (49:14.606)
huh.
Jaclyn (49:27.566)
Yes! Yes!
Ellyn Schinke (49:33.165)
shit, it's gonna happen again, shit, they're gonna judge me. This is turning into a dating and relationship podcast today, but I'm okay with that. I almost started a podcast on dating and relationships. I almost did, but like, yeah, I think that's interesting. It's making me reevaluate why that is and why that happens. And I'm hoping, cross our fingers, that now that I'm in my late 30s, that that won't be the case anymore.
Jaclyn (49:40.654)
How can I say? Yes!
Jaclyn (49:56.686)
Yes.
Ellyn Schinke (49:59.245)
But it's interesting how I do, I've called it for years, it's like a chameleon identity. It's like we're confident and comfortable in ourselves in certain contexts and then in other situations we kind of, we chameleon and we change colors and we shift our outward, even our outward energy to try to adapt ourselves to what we feel like the situation calls for. And I don't wanna do that anymore, but I also acknowledge that I still do in certain situations.
Jaclyn (50:10.446)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (50:15.118)
Damn!
Jaclyn (50:21.998)
Yeah, I think it's human. And the thing that I want to point out about that is that I think that it comes from this perspective, this projection that we make about how we think others see us. And because we penalize them, you know, like for so long, any man that came in my life, I was just like, you are a God and I don't deserve you and whatever I have to do to keep you happy, you know, holy.
Ellyn Schinke (50:40.013)
That's true.
Ellyn Schinke (50:47.693)
Mm -hmm.
Jaclyn (50:51.758)
whatever codependent passive, you know.
Ellyn Schinke (50:52.653)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, it's like you like me, therefore I like you more because you like me. That's kind of how I interpreted that.
Jaclyn (51:00.27)
Yeah. Well, and I have to like work harder to be a perfect version of myself and not bother you in any way, because if I bother you, then you'll leave and you're the best thing that could ever happen to me, which is bullshit. Every boyfriend I've had has been ultimately better suited than the last one in a general context. And I think that I think that it comes down to that. And this is why I just have this like passion to light women up, specifically women, all humans, but women.
Ellyn Schinke (51:05.837)
Hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (51:17.805)
Yeah, same.
Ellyn Schinke (51:26.133)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (51:28.686)
because we have been so conditioned to dim and make ourselves small and all of that kind of stuff. I want us all to be so empowered that we walk into the bedroom the way that we would walk into a conference room, like fucking owning that shit. Yes, I am sexy, period.
Ellyn Schinke (51:44.717)
Yeah, yeah, like, I love that example. I've literally walked into conference rooms where I've led workshops and been a speaker where I am not only the youngest person in the room, but the only female in the room. That's actually not an uncommon experience in what I do now. But it's funny to me, like, how can I do that? How can I literally walk into a room of a whole bunch of like, at least at the bare minimum, like Gen X to Baby Boomer, like male,
Jaclyn (51:55.79)
Yeah, huge.
Ellyn Schinke (52:14.605)
executives and own it and lead them in a four -hour workshop and not carry that same confidence into a date. What the fuck?
Jaclyn (52:15.758)
Yes.
Yes!
Yes!
Yes, exactly. Because somewhere we've decided that we know we have evidence because of our success in life or our career or whatever, that we are good enough in this context. But we don't have that evidence in the other context because this is a new relationship or because we're fed whatever bullshit we're fed in terms of media or whatever, you know, there's all kinds of factors. But I think that it's a belief system and I think that's an energy that we can change and choose to embody in these other contexts of our lives.
Ellyn Schinke (52:32.845)
It's true.
Ellyn Schinke (52:43.341)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (52:51.533)
Yeah.
Jaclyn (52:54.318)
So yeah, because the happiest relationships I know aren't between beautiful people, like on the outside, they're between people that deeply appreciate each other for who they are on the inside. That's the kind of love that I want, you know, like sexy body or not, that's super fun, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. The thing I want is to feel loved and love and...
Ellyn Schinke (52:54.477)
So true. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (53:11.309)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (53:18.709)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jaclyn (53:21.166)
The only way to do that is to be authentic and vulnerable, but also embodying my whole self, you know?
Ellyn Schinke (53:27.469)
my God, I feel like I keep talking to you about all of this. My brain's just this turned into a dating podcast a little bit toward the end here. I'm okay with that. I am because here's the thing too. Inauthenticity can burn us out more than anything. I know we're here talking about burnout. We really haven't touched on burnout explicitly a lot today, but I feel like what we have touched on is authenticity. And inauthenticity can burn you out more than anything else can.
Jaclyn (53:33.006)
Yes! Yes!
Jaclyn (53:52.366)
Yes.
Jaclyn (53:57.678)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (53:58.125)
Like it is absolutely, if you have to be a shell of yourself to survive the world and the life that you've created, you're gonna burn out, period.
Jaclyn (54:02.638)
Yes.
Jaclyn (54:06.254)
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. If you're putting on a mask every time, that's going to drain you in every possible way, especially if you're not also prioritizing yourself in a way to fill up.
Ellyn Schinke (54:17.005)
Exactly. Yeah. Which that right there is our full circle moment back to what we talked about at the beginning. So I feel like that is a good place for us to wrap this up. This is… Wow, we ran the gamut of things today and I love it. I love it so much. Okay. So if people are loving… and I'm going to say it, they're loving your energy. If people are loving your energy and they're loving what you stand for, I freaking love your energy. I'm like, when can we do this again?
Jaclyn (54:21.806)
Yes, love that.
Jaclyn (54:29.358)
We did it! I did too! I did too.
Jaclyn (54:37.486)
Hahaha!
Jaclyn (54:43.342)
Thank you. Likewise. Yes, absolutely. Same. So, JacquelineLennais .blog is my website and it's currently kind of under construction. I'm making a shift from the writer identity to the coach, you know, podcaster identity. Yeah. But that's where, you know, everything is. The other option would be to go to Linktree, JacquelineLennais. J -A -C -L -Y -N -L -A -N -A -E.
Ellyn Schinke (54:46.829)
Where can people find you?
Ellyn Schinke (54:58.445)
Love that. Love that.
Ellyn Schinke (55:05.965)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Beautiful, beautiful. And I will have all the links in the show notes and I'm actually getting better about links in show notes. Guys, I'm not going to make you go to the show notes on my website. I'm just going to like put them in the show notes because I realized I've been podcasting forever, but also maybe doing it wrong. So they'll actually be in the show notes now. I'm going to fix it. I'm going to do better now. So yeah, thank you. Thank you so, so, so much for being here. I loved this conversation and I loved that we got into the dating and relationship side of things because I don't do that a lot.
Jaclyn (55:16.206)
Woo!
Jaclyn (55:29.87)
Thank you! I loved this!
like this.
Me too! Me too! Me too.
Ellyn Schinke (55:38.509)
on this podcast. I feel like it's needed and stuff that I want to talk about more and I appreciate you being the person that I had that conversation with. Thank you.
Jaclyn (55:45.902)
Likewise, thank you. All of life is relationships, you know, let's bring it into everything. Master it.
Ellyn Schinke (55:52.557)
Hell yes.
Jaclyn (55:54.062)
Hell yes.